Confident You NETWORK with Marion Swingler

BONUS #5 THE AFTER PARTY: INTROVERT'S OUT LOUD: Embracing the Silence to Unlock Artistic Destiny and Authentic Connections with Music Legends with A.J. Throwback from CYP eps 18

April 02, 2024 • Marion Swingler • Episode 5

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Hey there Confident You! As an introvert, the art of creation often stems from the quietest moments—those when the world hushes and the inner voice speaks the loudest. Reflecting on the nuanced experiences of personal growth through podcasting, our latest episode peels back the creative curtain, revealing how a simple observation, like a cloud's shape, can lead to profound songwriting. We spin tales of wisdom handed down by influential educators, championing a love for understanding that fuels both artistry and the insatiable desire to absorb knowledge.

The episode marches on to the beat of independence, inspired by music moguls like Prince and Jay-Z who blazed trails by asserting control over their artistic destinies. We share candid regrets and reflections, like the lyric that never was—a missed chance to stand shoulder to shoulder with the defiant spirit of those who came before us. Ownership and mastery weave through our conversation, emphasizing the critical business acumen needed in today's digital and social media landscape. This heart-to-heart is more than just about seizing control; it's a testament to the belief that purpose and authenticity conquer fleeting fame.

Memory lane is lined with vinyl records and cassette tapes as we reminisce about the tangible allure of music's golden days. Albums that have defied time's erosion, like "Purple Rain" and "Thriller," share space with the audacious spirit of artists such as Kanye West, who wrote his own permission slip to stardom. As we wrap up, we underscore the significance of artists forging connections with their true audience, imparting life's lessons through the universal language of music. This episode is a symphony of musings for creators and listeners who cherish the deeper connections forged through the art of sound.

CONNECT WITH A.J. THROWBACK:
Founder/CEO, Balancing Act Music & Media (BAMM!) LLC
BAMM! Official Website:
https://www.bammllc.net/

Email:
info@BAMMLLC.net

Instagram:
@A.J.THROWBACK
https://www.instagram.com/a.j.throwback/

TikTok:
@A.J.THROWBACK
https://www.tiktok.com/@a.j.throwback

Facebook:
@AJTHROWBACK
https://www.facebook.com/ajthrowback

Twitter:
@AJTHROWBACK
https://twitter.com/ajthrowback

YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/ajthrowback928
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FOR DOMESTIC VIOLENCE HELP
Call for more information on domestic abuse or to get help for yourself/someone you love. 
Bethany House
1-888-80HELPS  
1-888-804-3577

The National Domestic Violence Hotline 
1-800-799- SAFE
1-800-799-7233 
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IOPraise

Speaker 1:

actually enjoying myself. I've learned so much. I've learned so much about me. How did you feel doing your podcast? What did that do for you from? That's what I wanted to ask you Introvert what is your definition? I hear you refer to yourself as an introvert. What is your definition of introvert so I can make sure I have a full and complete understanding of what you mean when you say that?

Speaker 2:

So what I mean when I say introvert and it's really probably more of the textbook definition of it anyway is someone who draws from within, draws their energy from within, like usually with, like extroverts, they're a little bit more dependent on, like the external circumstances, specifically like people, like they draw their energy from other people, whereas for me, as an introvert, while I can draw my energy from people, I draw it more so from within. So like when, when I'm, when I create, I don't necessarily have to be around other people in order to be inspired. I could be inspired by what's going on in life. I could be inspired by literally looking up in the sky and seeing a certain shape of a cloud like huh. That makes me think about cupcakes. I'm going to write a song about cupcakes. I like cupcakes, don't do that I want a cupcake.

Speaker 1:

Why would you do that Buttercream icing? Come on man.

Speaker 2:

What's with me, man, what it's just, you know, like it's just drawing energy from different places, like where you draw your energy from, like. Or you could think about, say, if I look up in the sky like huh, that makes me think about a cupcake, then I kind of sort of kind of sit with that thought in my mind, in my heart, in my spirit, like, hmm, how can I flip cupcakes into a song that actually has a little bit more meaning, which I have done plenty of times, you know. I said I could, I could take something as simple as what is the song that I took and flipped into something butterflies. I don't even remember the song because I don't even have the song one, uh, gladiator, who, uh, yeah, he has the song. He never released it, but it was a song about butterflies. So I literally sat and like studied what butterflies do, how butterflies do it in order to make it a metaphor for love and so like.

Speaker 2:

But that's the type of stuff I'll do, like I'll just sit with myself and be like you know, or really sit with God and be like, okay, how can we approach this song and make this what it is?

Speaker 2:

So that's really when I define myself as an introvert is that I don't like to say self-sufficient, because I'm never truly like myself, doesn't just suffice if, if that makes sense, yeah, you know.

Speaker 2:

But at the same time I draw from kind of sort of like just really sitting and thinking about things, um, feeling my feelings, thinking my thoughts, thinking about things, um, filling my feelings, thinking my thoughts, really doing like analysis in my mind or just kind of being more of an observer than a person that has to feel like they have to fill the room with words and energy and talking and you know all of that stuff and there's nothing wrong with that. But for me, like when I, when I interact with other, it takes more out of me than, say, somebody that's an extrovert. An extrovert can probably, like you know people for hours and hours and hours and be just fine, whereas like an introvert it's like that's cool, now I need to go off in this corner and recharge so I can go people again. You know, it takes a little bit more out of an introvert to people than it does for somebody who's not, you know. So it's really just an introvert, is just somebody who's like just inwardly charged and energized.

Speaker 1:

Inwardly charged and energized Inwardly. You keep using the word study. You used it all during the interview, the conversation. The word study came up so many times that it's something that you do. You study your art, your craft, you study your own thoughts. Yes, you study. What was this something? How did you start doing that? How did you know that that was something you needed to do?

Speaker 2:

well, um, probably the simplest answer is my mother's a school teacher. Uh, well, she's a. Now she's a retired school teacher, 43 years in DCPS, and that is yes, yes, yes, and a good amount of that time was in Southeast DC. So say less. So you know, growing up on the east of the river, you already know. But because she was a school teacher and one of the things that she used to always tell me, whenever I would ask her what a word meant, she would tell me to go look it up and she would tell me she's like I could tell you what this means. But remember, I'm not a dictionary. We have a dictionary, so you should go look it up.

Speaker 2:

So my mom, between my mom mom, between my humanities 10th grade humanities teacher actually, she was my 10th and 12th grade humanities teacher. Shout out to miss anna kinsman, school without walls, senior high school uh, she was a type of person like when we would read, she, if we got to a word that was a word that she even thought we didn't know. And if we got to the word and we didn't know it, we would get embarrassed in front of the class because she'd be like look, how are you reading something and you don't know what it means. So from the first time she ever did that to me was the last time she ever did that to me I was like, oh no, every single time that I don't know something, I write it down, I take notes on it, and so that whole between my mother, between miss kinsman and you know a lot of different experiences in life. I've become a student of pretty much everything, like I have. Actually I should have wore the shirt tonight since I said study so much. I have a shirt from my merchandise line that says student of life, for life.

Speaker 2:

Because if you're not constantly studying life, then you might as well not be living. Because what do you really? How are you evolving, how are you learning, how are you growing, if you're not constantly studying the things that make you you and the things that make the world around it function the way it functions? You know I'm saying if you're not, and if you're, you know spiritual like we are. You know I'm saying if you're god revering people, because I don't like saying god fearing, I like saying god revering, yes, because we are in reverence of god, we're not in fear of god, because fear and faith cannot coexist. So we're god revering people, we, we, we sit in awe of who he is. You know I'm saying so. If you're not studying thyself to be approved, then how then? How can then? How can you be, you know?

Speaker 1:

that right there, that part right there, and that is AJ throwback. Ladies and gentlemen, you have just been schooled on studying. That is how in depth that one word yields all of that information. Amazing you are. I appreciate you. Yes, my goodness, this was. I know you were like where is she going with Prince?

Speaker 2:

but you know it's funny and I should have said this during the podcast. What's interesting about you saying that? I have a song called independence avenue, where and it's a song about being an independent artist, and in the song I referenced the whole thing of prince having written slave on his face. I said, and I should. This should have been the. This should have been the lyric. Oh, I'm so mad at myself now because it should have been the lyric. I'm so mad at myself now because it should have been the lyric. What should have been the lyric? Go ahead. I said I'm a king, walk around wearing master on my face. That should have been the lyric.

Speaker 2:

I'm so mad I didn't say that I can't cause it's one of the illest bars I've ever written because, like, instantly, I had Prince in my the entire time. I was thinking about Prince when I wrote that song the entire time. That's that's why it made sense, like to me, that you used Prince, because, like I thought about that line and I thought about everything he went through at Warner Brothers and all of the nonsense that he had to endure and the whole thing of him wearing slave on his face. That was so powerful. I was like I don't ever want to be in that position where I feel like somebody is trying to take me for a ride and take my money, take my identity, take my likeness, take everything that I've worked so hard to build and say it's theirs.

Speaker 1:

Right, you create it.

Speaker 2:

Yep and say it's theirs. I don't have any right to it, I can't own my masters, you know. That's why I like I think about that. I also think about there's a line Jay-Z said in this song no Hook, where he said he just simply said it slaves, own your masters. And that bar alone could have so many different meanings.

Speaker 2:

But for somebody who ended up walking away, when he ended up starting rock nation, leaving Def Jam, leaving Rockefeller, he ended up taking his masters from all of his music that he did with, with Rockefeller, under the Island Def Jam pool, and he owned his masters. And from there it was like I look at what Prince went through, look at what jay-z went through, and it's like that's how I want to move, like, and it's not just the ownership, of saying oh, I just own it, it's about making sure that you've done all of the business behind owning it. It's not enough just to own it, yes, but you got to put the business behind it. You got to make sure that you cross all the t's, dot all the i's and if you got an uppercase q, slash all your q's, you know, because otherwise it's just a oh. You just look at oh, oh, oh, my goodness, oh, what happened Exactly. See, oh man, exactly, exactly.

Speaker 1:

I'm alone.

Speaker 2:

You picked up exactly what I was putting down. I can't do this.

Speaker 1:

Oh my goodness, all of that, wow, okay, yeah, yep, that was amazing.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

This is still stuff that can go out.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Because I recorded it, so I'll give it to you.

Speaker 2:

I appreciate it, I appreciate it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's hot.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's hot yeah.

Speaker 1:

That's hot. Yeah, that was hot. Yeah, now you're making me think I thought. When I started the show I said everybody is like what, what? And that's kind of me having people really be lost at the beginning. It's only for the people that are waiting for the other shoe to drop. So if you log off going yeah, I don't know what this is about don't stay for the punch yeah, yeah, exactly I don't know what to tell you.

Speaker 1:

I don't know what how my mind thinks I just jump right into something and you're going what, what, what? Even the domestic violence one I did just starting with the fact that Tina Turner had just passed.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1:

To go to Ike Turner and everything. And then that's my the fact that I didn't even realize Independence Day is coming up.

Speaker 2:

Look at what I titled the episode Independence Day is coming up. Look at what I titled the episode Yep, yep, yep.

Speaker 1:

Those are my nods, my winks from God.

Speaker 2:

You're on the right track.

Speaker 1:

You're doing the right thing Veterans Day. I had no idea I was interviewing a veteran until an hour before somebody texted me. It was like so, apropos, you're interviewing a veteran. I was like what?

Speaker 2:

Wowo, you're interviewing a veteran. I was like what I am? Look at, God I am. I had no idea.

Speaker 1:

I had no idea.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

So when I say God is really, I know that I'm doing the right thing. I know that I'm not doing this just to hear myself talk or to be in front of the camera. My kids even know. They're like wait, you're on social media. I didn't start. I didn't start instagram until december the 22nd we're only what. How many months into this year, the seventh, we're going to the seventh month. So that means I've been, I've been on social media for seven months yep, yep already started a podcast already just I'm not gonna lie.

Speaker 2:

When I saw you get on social media, I was like hold on, hold on, like yes, yes, yes. I was like let's go, let's go.

Speaker 1:

That thing is so. My kids was like you know, you told us we can't do this. I said, yes, kids. No, you know where I work you know what. I see I'm like yeah, nah, we're not doing that. If you're going to make, your mistakes in life you're gonna make your mistakes in life. You're gonna make them in private, like I got a chance to make mine right.

Speaker 1:

I made mistakes, so I never, ever, held them to this unrealistic expectation of perfection. But my goal was to make sure you didn't live your life out in front of everybody. And you were able to make your mistakes in profit.

Speaker 2:

Yep.

Speaker 1:

Those are to be made in private. I couldn't get. I'm like, why are people out here with their phones up just posting random people? I was in McDonald's with somebody and she was like, oh my goodness, I got to post this. I got to post this and I'm like what are you posting? I turn around, it's a little kid at the counter in their thermal sleeping clothes. Yes, it was July.

Speaker 2:

Oh, wow.

Speaker 1:

Yes, those were clearly flannels, but I'm like that's a kid.

Speaker 2:

Right, it's certain things. Like you got to know the limits, you know that's a kid. Like you gotta know the limits, you know it's. I think, and and people I talk to all the time that's from a certain generation, you know. I mean we, we from that generation for real. For real, like if you pulling out phones, people looking at you like uh, what you doing, bro?

Speaker 1:

like you popo, like what's up like you know what, we, the ones that came up with the phrase what happens in vegas? Right exactly exactly recording of it on your phone nope, nope, nope if you were, the only people who knew was the people who was there exactly, exactly.

Speaker 1:

But now it's cameras everywhere. But the crazy thing is so me, just me and my conspiracy thing Watch it, watch it, watch it. This is the last thing on the play. Watch it, watch it, watch it. They wanted to pass a bill to put cameras everywhere. They knocked it down. They found a whole different way of doing it by putting it in our phones.

Speaker 2:

Yep.

Speaker 1:

Having social media where we post everything.

Speaker 2:

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1:

And then having people do the door ring, yep Inside cameras.

Speaker 2:

Yep.

Speaker 1:

All of that.

Speaker 2:

Yep.

Speaker 1:

They found. They said no, we're not going to do it, but then they found another way for us to do it to ourselves. Yep, yep. They found that they. They said, no, we're not going to do it, but then they found another way for us to do it to ourselves.

Speaker 1:

Yep, yep, big brothers watching that part right there, that part right there. So I used to tell my I used to take my laptop and put a sticky on top of my camera and my son would be like, why do you keep doing that? I said, yeah, it's just me. I don't trust it. I put stickies on top of the camera on my laptop, the camera on my TV. Why, my TV got a camera. Nope, post it. We're going to cover all of those, we're just going to do that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Now I call. I did a virtual meeting with him and I go Manuel, I can't see you. He said, oh, my cover's still on. I said, oh, you got a cover on your camera.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, why you?

Speaker 1:

got a cover on your camera, son, because, ma you never know, somebody could be. Oh, in my mind I'm like oh, now she not crazy?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, they got the little slide joints you can do. I actually need one for my phone because I have one for my laptop. Like, if I'm not doing something like this, I just poop, yeah, like, yeah, nah on my phone.

Speaker 1:

I wouldn't take it in the bathroom, in the shower, because one time I looked down and on my phone there was literally a picture of me and my towel getting going to turn the water.

Speaker 1:

On my phone oh, wow I said, wait, I didn't, never mind, I just stopped taking it in the bathroom. It sounds crazy. So yeah, I would love to have, because I used to put tape on top. I used to take the sticky, the sticky part on top. I used to tape the sticky part on top of my stuff. My son, my listen, I don't care what you think, it's what I think. That make me comfortable. I'm good, I ain't making you put one on yours.

Speaker 1:

I can put it on mine. Oh yeah, all right, I'm going to leave you alone now. I appreciate you. Thank you, thank you.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, I appreciate you. This was excellent, excellent, excellent, excellent.

Speaker 1:

I had a great time tonight listen, you should have had a great time. Do you know the work you made me put in someone who knows more about music than you? Yeah, nah, tell that brother stay on the other side of the room. No, I don't want to interview him. I'm like, wait what? I was watching interviews of you and I was like, okay, that dude asked this. This dude went oh, he unpacked a whole big old, he asked for this much. You gave so much in-depth information that it's impossible for someone to not have a full understanding of what you were speaking about. So, e as I've seen you interview very good, amazing interviewer thank you to see you be interviewed and the command and authority that you have on the topics that you discuss, and the way that you just catch the question and go oh, okay, let me. There, you go, but I'm not just sending one ball, it's going to be so much information.

Speaker 1:

It's undeniable that I know what I'm talking about. It's so rich in history you can see the study of the things that you do. It's just so rich in the love that you have, for it is evident in what you do and the love that you have for the information to be out and be accurate and to be known, because you take it and you simplify it in such a way that you definitely somebody can walk away. Every conversation I have with you, I walk away with a better understanding of whatever that is I ask, and that's exactly how you do, uh, as the person that is being interviewed.

Speaker 1:

so I thank you for the example of being an interviewer and, um, yeah, I'm gonna have to listen.

Speaker 2:

I had to step up. I had to step up, girl, girl this boy ready for him.

Speaker 1:

You better know that sugar hill gang song I can't go. What's that? What's that? What's? That's not good enough. You gotta be listen this dude up here. You can't stay down here and let him. You need to come. I need you to get up here. You can have this conversation, it's best to have a conversation, at least in the same realm, on the same level, and I really do appreciate you. Because of you, I did have to raise the game, raise, raise the bar, and I appreciate it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, no doubt, no doubt. And it's so funny that you had mentioned Sugar Hill Gang, because that was. I'm glad that you said it, because I didn't get to say that when I was saying, like the records that were laying around, saying like the records that were laying around, like the most memorable one that I remember was the label. You know, with the vinyls they had the little stickers on the label and the sugar hill gang always had one of the coolest ones to me, you know, because it was just so like them solar records, um, and it was like another one. I want to say it was like casablanca records.

Speaker 2:

They all had like some of the coolest stickers on their vinyl because it was so colorful and so intricate. You know, I mean like sugar hill gang, like just like that, that little colorful, like how to it would curl around and all that, and it was blue. I was like yo, they had their joints was like like that, like I absolutely like it made me want to listen to their music. You know, like I didn't even have to see like the album cover, just show me a really cool sticker on the vinyl and like you'll get my attention, you know so even in that, even the sticker on the vinyl, do you remember eight tracks?

Speaker 2:

oh yeah oh yeah my uh, you're what well with my uncle, so like I never actually listened to music on eight tracks. But my uncle, may he rest in peace, my uncle raymond, he had a bunch of eight tracks just laying around. He had an eight track player that didn't work, but he had a bunch of eight tracks laying around. I was like what are these? And my mom was like those are eight tracks. Like what are eight? And my mom was like those are 8 tracks. They were like cassettes before cassettes.

Speaker 1:

I was like oh okay right, and then cassettes, but then the 45 and then the whole album and then you go to now, everything is digital yeah, how do you feel would you go to now? Everything is digital. Yeah, yeah, how do you feel? Would you like to put your your music out as an album?

Speaker 2:

yes actual vinyl album yes, yes, like when I put out my full-length album, um, I want to pull it out, I want to put it out on vinyl. I want to put out on vinyl and I want to put out on cassette and I want to put out on cd. I want to put out on all the mediums that I came up with. You know, I'm saying like I came up on cds, I came up on cassettes, I came up on vinyl. So I want to be able to put the album on all of those mediums. Number one, because I came up on it.

Speaker 2:

Number two, and this isn't bragging, I don't want it to come across as bragging. This is me just understanding the greatness that I put into what I do and the effort that I put into what I do. I feel like my album will be vinyl worthy, because not all albums are vinyl worthy, will be vinyl worthy, because not all albums are vinyl worthy. You know. You know some albums like, uh, you could have just put that on mp3, that was fine, that was cool. You know, you just left it there. Like this project that I'm putting together, like this is going to be a vinyl worthy project. So I definitely, I definitely want it on vinyl a vinyl worthy project, come on here.

Speaker 1:

A vinyl worthy project, so, because when they give awards, they still give you out a gold record, a platinum record, even though most things now are digital that's right.

Speaker 2:

That's right because it's like you know what are you going to do a gold, or platinum, or diamond I don't even know what like the equivalent for an MP3 or wave or whatever would be. It's like I don't know. I don't know. A flash drive, a gold, right?

Speaker 1:

Benalubi, benalubi, yeah so my favorite album was Purple Rain. I literally was able to go and get a 45 from the record store and it had him on it and the album itself was purple.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, just the things that you could do with albums. My God, my favorite. I can't, I can't lie the one that I wore out. I used to listen to Al Jarreau, I used to listen to Phyllis Hyman. I had prints on repeat all day, every day, as I would go and come back from two hours to get to school, two hours to get back from school and lunchtime yeah, that was Prince. Yeah, when I would get home, I cannot feel. The one that got the most play was Michael Jackson, off the wall.

Speaker 2:

Oh yes, oh yes, oh yes.

Speaker 1:

As far as an album.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, because.

Speaker 1:

I had my cassette so I was listening to Prince going and coming. That was all day everywhere. But that off the wall album, oh my gosh.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, and there's always a debate on which one is better off the wall or thriller.

Speaker 2:

Now, when I was a kid I would have said thriller, but as an adult who's lived, who's sat with music a little bit more, and when I really listened to the I won't say the purity, because thriller has its own type of level of purity musically, but thriller is a little bit more polished than off the wall, whereas off the wall still has a little bit of a little bit of grit to it that I, like you know, like it's still, it's like the end of disco, but not disco.

Speaker 2:

Then you think about a song like I can't help it, which is like the blueprint for like so much theory, music theory that gets learned, like I feel, like everybody learns. I can't help it, they learn how to play that song. If you're a musician musician you know I'm saying so you don't have a song like that on Thriller, it's only on Off the Wall, you know. So whenever I think about like which album to me, like I gravitate more toward listening to, it's off the wall, it's just, it's just sonically like to be 1979 and put that album out like mike was ahead of his time yeah quincy jones was ahead of his time.

Speaker 2:

Rod temperton was ahead of his time.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know, and that's of his time.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you know, and that's some. That's somebody who does not get enough props. Rod Temperton, who was with Heat Wave that was a group that he was with and the stuff that he was involved in. Whether you talk in Heat Wave, whether you talk in Michael Jackson, whether you talk in George Benson, like pretty much anybody who Quincy Jones was touching back in the late 70s, early 80s James Ingram, Patty Austin, you know, the list goes on and on and on, Like whenever I think about the Neptunes with Chad and Pharrell.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

I almost want to say that, like Rod Temperton was the Chad and Quincy Jones was the Pharrell, because Quincy Jones was the face guy, like everybody knew Quincy, whereas not everybody kind of sort of knew who Rod Temperton was. But Rod Temperton had so much like musicianship, songwriting abilities going on for him he was like the secret weapon. You know of that whole thing going on, you know, so you put him and Quincy Jones and Michael Jackson together for that first album that they did together. I mean, it was just, it was just incredible. It was just incredible, right.

Speaker 1:

Right. So that's how I feel about Prince. I think that Prince is such a unique style Nothing he would put out things nobody was putting out. Under the cherry moon, nobody was putting out anything like Purple Rain Nobody. Moon, nobody was putting out, uh, anything like purple rain nobody. But he was never mistakenly by our culture. We never mistook that he was talking to us, to me. I never mistook that he was talking to me telling my story or anything. Nothing, nothing in me, ever. Sometimes an artist comes out and they do different types of music and our culture will go oh, they're not with us. I never felt that way about Prince, but I feel like his music was always so unique it was nothing like it.

Speaker 2:

Nothing could compare. That's crazy nothing compared.

Speaker 1:

Okay, because that's also wait, wait, wait, you found a song, so yeah it, and so that's why how I feel about, and I think he purposely made sure he was unique and different I don't think he wanted to look like anyone else. I don't think he wanted to sound like anyone else. I think he took his craft very seriously, to the point that he taught himself over 20 instruments yeah, he taught himself by ear yeah, that's incredible all of those and then his first album. He played all of those instruments.

Speaker 1:

That was all him yeah just to be that intricate, to be 15 and go, yeah, nah, not unless I want to produce my own. There's nobody that I know is going to be able to do what I envision for me, the way that I see for me. I don't want to sign. So he already knew in his mind yeah, if I sign that paper the way you got it written, I have to do whatever you say. You get to pick my clothes, you get to pick my songs. You get to pick my songs. You pick the producer. I have to record whatever you say I have to record. I want to record what I want to record. So the freedom that he got just from that first move of not taking the contract for four years For them to understand dude, he's really not going to sign this nightclub. No, I'm not. You need to fix that. He's really not gonna sign this night, but no, I'm not.

Speaker 2:

Yeah I'm not doing it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's why, I connect with him so much, you know, like artistically and business wise, because this is something a lot of people don't talk about when it comes to prince.

Speaker 2:

Prince was, like, one of the first artists to sell his music on his own website. You know he was, he was kind of band camp before band camp was, you know, like he, because he had to be, because he had to figure out a different way to do this thing than what was being done at the time, like you're talking about. This is the late 90s. That he did this like Prince is always ahead of the curve at in some form of fashion, whether it's creatively, whether it's business wise, and he had to get jerked in order to, you know, be ahead of the curve. But he managed to do it in a way that, because I think I remember hearing him I don't know whether Nas told the story or whether somebody told the story about naz, but prince pulled naz aside and told him like basically taught him how to be better at his business ah because it was like he saw what was going on.

Speaker 2:

You know, naz being on columbia, um, he was like look, you got to do this differently. You know, I respect you as an artist, I think you're awesome, but you got to do your business differently. You know, and that's that's big like if prince is telling you that that means he actually rocks with you as an artist and as a person enough to actually give you that tutelage, you know that's why he started doing interviews.

Speaker 1:

Everybody's like oh, he's starting to do interviews because he doesn't feel relevant, he doesn't feel this. No, he started doing interviews because he wanted to make sure. He said no, I want to make sure the younger generation doesn't lose the authenticity of music. Yep, if you're going to synthesizers and you're just computerizing everything, you're losing the authenticity of music. So I'm here, I'm speaking now. I'm not speaking for personal things. I'm speaking to educate the youth, the ones that are coming up now. I'm like, oh wait, this is going wrong. I'm gonna need to say something, I'm gonna have to start speaking, and that's why he started interviewing yeah, yeah, I think that's why I'd like thinking about what you just said.

Speaker 2:

I think that's why I like he's such a huge or he was such a huge fan of Janelle Monae, because Janelle Monae is probably the new age answer or new age kind of version of Prince at this stage, because, like, what she does is so different than what anybody else is has been doing. I mean, she started off that way. I will never forget the first time. The first time, no, the first out of two times. I've actually seen Janelle Monae live twice and both times that I seen her I think they were about 10 years apart. So the first time I saw her she was actually an artist under big boy on his purple I think it was purple ribbon label. Uh, because it was her and his other artist named Scar. When I say that the crowd didn't know what to do with her because we were at the Zanzibar, mind you, that crowd didn't. That crowd, that crowd had come to see Glenn Jones and I think, like John B, that crowd did not know what to do with Janelle Monae. I knew what to do with her because I had already known of her, but they did not know what to do with her. Fast forward 11 years later, I see her at the Fillmore in Miami and that stadium is packed for her, because she made a career of being herself, being authentic and true to who she was, and it took having people like prince to believe in her and to encourage her to continue to lean into that and be who you are artistically, and people are going to rock with you. You know, I'm saying, like you're going to have supporters, you're going to have like you're not just going to have fleeting supporters, you're going to have steady supporters. Yeah, you know, and that's what it's about in this game. It's.

Speaker 2:

You know, it's funny, because I was just having a conversation with somebody about, uh, rap and we were talking about how, a lot of times, rappers feel the need to copy off of other people in order to like be accepted in the industry, because the industry tells you you can only talk about, like, this limited amount of subjects. I forget what we were talking about. Oh, artists not evolving with their, with their supporters, not realizing that their supporters want more out of them, um, and so you know, I I had commented. I forget what my comment was, but one of the people that he mentioned was Kanye and he was saying how Kanye was given the permission once he was popular and I was like, well, actually he was different from the start. He didn't sound like anybody from the start. So I don't think it was so much about him being given permission Right Once he was popular it's about. It was always about him saying I can sign my own permission slip, I'm good.

Speaker 1:

Always, always. He was asking me. He was like OK, you want to act like that. Fine, I'll do it.

Speaker 2:

Right, exactly he was asking me. He was like okay, you want to act like that, fine, I'll do it right.

Speaker 1:

Exactly, I'll do it get in the car Accident and still do it on the schedule. I was doing it through some wire On my teeth yep and I'm still gonna spit.

Speaker 2:

Yep, exactly, exactly. If that isn't a sign Like who else has done that Right successfully to that level, to make a song with their their mouth wired shut and that joint Be a hit and every Single word.

Speaker 1:

Exactly felt Every single Letter of Every word he said. You felt it, you felt everything he meant when he said that thing. Yep he's like, oh, and this ain't even going to stop me. He's like, wait, that didn't stop you, dude, your jaw is wired, shit. Schedule the studio.

Speaker 2:

Yep, exactly, I'm paying for it. What's the problem, mm-hmm Like hey, I want to record.

Speaker 2:

And then like, hey, I want to record and then start the journal talking about a boost for breakfast, an ensure for dessert they had the pancakes. I just sipped the scissor like, come on, you start the song off. Clever, you know, and visual, like you see everything that he said. Like who else starts a song off like this is the first song that Rockefeller is actually giving you. I mean, you had to twist their arm to make them release a song on you as their in-house, one of their in-house producers, and you had to make believers out of them. He started his whole career was I'm going to take charge. I'm not going to let anybody give me the permission to be who I am. This is who I am and I'm going to continue to be who I am, for better or worse, with Kanye. But but he still took charge of his own destiny. And the point that I was making to the brother was if every artist did that yeah the industry would be at the mercy of the artists, and not the other way around.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yes, sir, yes, sir, yes, sir, but I love that you came on here tonight and you told people how to make their own stage.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yes, how to make their own stage.

Speaker 2:

Mm, hmm, mm, hmm, it's important, it's important, it's important, it's important. You know, the key thing is and this is something I should have mentioned during the show too is, in terms of blueprint, figuring out who your art, your audience is. The worst thing you can do as any artist, independent, major, whatever is say oh, I want to make music for everybody, the music ain't for everybody, like that's. The first thing that you got to understand as an artist is that your music is not for everybody. You have to go out and you have to find your audience.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and it might now, granted, that audience might be wide ranging, but that still doesn't mean that your music is for everybody. If you make a specific type of music, you have to find a few people that rock with you and keep magnifying those people, those types of people, and, like I said, they may look different, they may come from different backgrounds, they might, um, like different things. Some might like sports, some might like anime things, some might like sports, some might like anime. Whatever it might be, you might find a bunch of people in between, but the bottom line is figuring out who your audience is and just continuing to magnify that audience. Your audience is not everybody.

Speaker 1:

Because I know that your audience is. You make grown man music.

Speaker 2:

Very grown I am. I am not in my 20s anymore, I'm again. I am. I will be 44 years old in september. Uh, I don't make music for 20 years, but but I make music that a lot of 20olds can find themselves in, because I talk about life, I talk about my experience and I don't just talk about my experience as just being the age that I am. I try to do my best to bring it backward and bring it forward and talk about the lessons that I learn. So it's almost to the point. And once again I quote Jay-Z, the line where he said I think it was in what's the joint H to the Izzo, where he was like Hove did that, so hopefully you don't have to go through that, like that's how I feel. Joe did that, so hopefully you don't have to go through that. You know? Or Joe did that.

Speaker 1:

Hopefully you will go through that and better, come on here because you were definitely an example to be seen and understood and gleaned from tonight. My God, I appreciate that.