Confident You NETWORK with Marion Swingler

BONUS #12 THE AFTER PARTY: THE RED FLAGS OF LOVE: Overcoming Emotional Abuse, Infidelity, and Narcissism in the Quest for Healthy Relationships with Briaina Latrice from CYP eps 22

April 20, 2024 • Marion Swingler • Episode 12

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WELCOME TO THE AFTER PARTY!!! The conversation after the show!

Embarking on a journey through the labyrinth of emotional abuse and the quest for self-trust isn't for the faint of heart. It's a tale of tough love in my coaching practice, where I guide individuals to peel back the layers of their pain and unearth the strength to move forward. As we sail into the treacherous seas of infidelity and the healing that follows, we uncover personal narratives and shared experiences, shedding light on the resilience required to mend a fractured trust. 

In the throes of relationships, the specter of narcissism often lurks, casting long shadows of doubt and manipulation. I recount a personal encounter with deceit, crafting a guide to recognizing these insidious tactics and the red flags that may appear too late. Our discussion spans the experiences of public figures and everyday souls, proving that the path to self-realization is unique and universal. We'll map out the signs to spot early in dating and the significance of actions over words when holding a partner accountable.

Rounding out our intimate conversation, we turn to the foundations of healthy relationships: boundaries and values. Here, we dissect the art of discerning true desires and the trust pillars underpinning every worthwhile connection. With a nod to the complexities of faith and love, we offer practical wisdom for navigating the crossroads where they intersect. Whether it's time to double down on efforts or fold your hand, this episode will equip you with the insights to make empowered decisions in love and beyond. Join us for a heart-to-heart that promises to enlighten, embolden, and inspire.

In this episode, Briaina Latrice, Affair Recovery Coach, uses her voice to give women the strength to decide whether to stay or leave after being cheated on. 

She speaks on HOT CHEATING TOPICS like:
- red flags
- betrayal
- emotional abuse
- treatment/therapy
- HARD CHOICES

As well as critical tips like: 
- "If you choose to stay, make sure you find some peace in it!"
- "You're not CRAZY!"

Briaina does not want victims of adultery to suffer alone in silence.

CONTACT:
Book A Free Discovery Call: https://calendly.com/affairrecoverycoach/15min?month=2023-07
Website: https://lifeafterinfidelity.net/
Email: affairrecoverycoach@gmail.com
Phone: 469-956-9979

FOLLOW:
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@briaina_latrice
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/life_after_infidelity_/

PRODUCT:
Boundaries Questions E-book: https://tinyurl.com/Boundary-Ebook 
 
COMING SOON:
Devotional: Healing the Heart From Infidelity, A 49 Day Journey 
Book: Where Healing Wants You To Be: Life After Infidelity Vol 1
_________________________________________________________________
FOR DOMESTIC VIOLENCE HELP
Call for more information on domestic abuse or to get help for yourself/someone you love. 
Bethany House
1-888-80HELPS  
1-888-804-3577

The National Domestic Violence Hotline 
1-800-799- SAFE
1-800-799-7233 
__________________________________________________________________
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INSTAGRAM and FACEBOOK 
@marionswingler

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Speaker 1:

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, awesome, awesome, awesome. So this is the after party for episode 22. Staying versus leaving? Yes, ma'am, because the choice, the hard choice, is yours, it's yours, my goodness, my goodness, the choice is yours, it's yours, my goodness, my goodness, the choice is yours. So how do you, how do you approach clients that you feel are very sensitive about what they have going on, maybe not even wanting to divulge everything, you can kind of tell.

Speaker 2:

So it's so funny. I was just telling some people I was working with a client this week and I was asking her a question. And every time I would ask her a question she was just like I don. And every time I would ask her a question she was just like I don't know, I don't know, you know, and she's crying because, again, you know. And I finally just told her I was like okay, I said you paid me for a service and so it's not gonna be an advantage to you if I don't give you what you need.

Speaker 2:

And I said so I already know the answer. I said cause everything you've been through I've been through. So I reassured her that there's no shame that I already know the answer, which is why I'm asking the question the way I'm asking it to her, right? I said so here's what I'm gonna do, which is why I'm asking the question the way I'm asking it to her, right? I said so here's what I'm gonna do. I said I'm just going to hold space for you. I said and until you get the strength to actually speak this out loud, because I need you to speak it out Cause? I said. I told her.

Speaker 2:

I said I see this every day. You're ashamed, and I said, and you like other woman that I coach, and so you know, it's kind of like this hard love of like reminding them that you're not alone yeah, you know what I'm saying, but it's also like reassuring them too. I've went through this, yes, and so I need you to get to that place where you can call it out, because the reason why you are where you are is because you've suppressed it for so long. My job is to help you unsuppress it, and so while you sitting there, sulking, you don't want to get it out. It's fine. We're going to be real uncomfortable and I'm going to sit here while you sit here. Why you sit?

Speaker 1:

here listening. The real uncomfortable started with me when you said listen, don't ask that out ever again, man. You said no, you know we be crying, don't be doing us like that don't be doing us like that.

Speaker 2:

But you know what we are. I feel like I can say that, though, like I can do that, though Like I can do that jokingly, because at the end of the day my ladies know I love them. Come on here, you know what I'm saying, and so it's like it comes from this space of like not talking about them, but it's like it's not a mockery. I'm just, you know, telling a story, but here's the thing too, for me when I telling the story, but here's the thing too for me when I'm doing this work, it's already so heavy so I have to find laughter and enjoyment and things that I, that I can, and eventually they'll, they'll go back to, you know, once they get healed and they'll laugh at it too.

Speaker 2:

You know they, they know I genuinely love them yes, but the look back is for real, because if y'all want my stuff.

Speaker 1:

Oh my goodness, that thing is what bam. You could barely understand what was being said.

Speaker 2:

So, yes, it was so bad for me because, like I told you, I got down to a size zero and one time my best friend came over and I had some sandals, you know that zip up around the ankle, their things was just flopping and we laugh about it now. But my best friend was like yeah, don't get to that point no more. She's like that was embarrassing, walking around the store with you and them sandals just whipping around the stove with you, and then them sandals just whipping around the ankles just loose oh no, you wasn't a loose shoe girl.

Speaker 1:

Loose shoe girl all around the ankles, no, ma'am, no ma'am. So in discussing the topic, is there anything that you felt like we didn't touch on, that you would like to expound on, or something that we did touch on and you're like wait, I didn't get to give this perspective.

Speaker 2:

I I know that everything is unique and has different perspectives um, you know something that we didn't talk on that I that I think is important, is emotional abuseotional abuse is a form of abuse, and we overlook that. Studies have actually been revealed that. Now again, I'm not minimizing either one, but studies have actually revealed that emotional abuse can end up has, uh, more severe consequences than physical abuse, and the reason being is because it's emotional. So a lot of times people don't even know they're being abused. Yes, right, because it's emotional, but so what? What that means is that people will stay in a situation longer because there's no physical uh, I don't know showings of abuse, right, right, so you can't see the scars. You can't physically see the scars during the time, yeah, and so, um, what happens is, is now they're, they're, they're, they're even showing like it has more adverse effects. So, um, mental health is coming out of it, right, mental illnesses, like how it it affects you mentally and then also how, um, it's it's a emotional abuse is a gateway to physical abuse. And so, talking about that as well, because if people know, knew, or know how to acknowledge emotional abuse, then they can leave a lot sooner than before the physical abuse comes in, and they always say if you're dealing with like a narcissist and stuff like that.

Speaker 2:

Women it's it's a known fact, not women people. People go back into abusive relationships five times, like they show that about. On average, people will go back into an abusive relationship emotional or physical five times and after that five times studies have shown that it actually ends up not good. So a lot of times people die, like there's a death. That kind of occurs in that, and so I think us talking about that emotional abuse uh component is is really important you just said something.

Speaker 1:

You said that the emotional abuse, um, someone will go back uh, five times. I've done the in the domestic violence I did with the director, tiffany of, um, tiffany Hernandez, uh Martinez of I'm sorry, tiffany, I'm getting your last name wrong, please forgive me. You know I love you. Um, tiffany of Bethany house was here and she gave um. She said that it was seven times. A woman will go back to physical abuse seven times and that's a lot of. Go back Even between the five. Five is a lot, seven is even more so. Even in between that. Um, that's a lot. You said in the going back five times. The abuse, the emotional abuse, can you, can, it can end, it can resolve in death. That speaks a lot to your own story it does.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it does, and I think that's so important right, because death doesn't necessarily mean that the betrayer could actually physically harm you. But the long-term stress that you're dealing with, you know, because it even talks about that too when you deal with, like, the long-term stress and anxiety, how it now, is causing physical health symptoms. So stress, high blood pressure, you know, a weakened heart, you know we don't understand because, like I even told you, I lost weight and my hair was falling out. So all of those things are resulting in you in self-harm, you know in harm Not in self-harm, but harm Right.

Speaker 1:

So you lost weight and your hair fell out. You got on the machine. She looked at the machine. There were red dots all over your body and she looked at you and said you're dying of a broken heart. Mm-hmm. She looked at you and said you're dying of a broken heart. That, in the emotional trauma of everything that was going on, was literally breaking your heart, which is the main organ that you need for your body to flourish and stay alive.

Speaker 1:

That and so the thing of you saying it's emotional, it's how impactful the emotional abuse is, I feel is not talked about enough. You're right, physically, you can see it, you can see the scars, you can see the wounds, you can actually touch them and feel them. They're tangible to you. But emotions, that thing, for me, I thought I was crazy. Yeah, it was like am I crazy? Am I blaming him for something that doesn't exist? Am I reading too much into this? Is this going on? Is that going on? Nah, it is much more impactful. I'm glad that you brought the emotional trauma of of. Um, wow, yeah, the emotional trauma backup, because it's abuse, but it's also, uh, trauma, my goodness, my goodness, that's. I'm sorry, you got me messed up just a little bit. Just a little bit, just a taste, just a taste.

Speaker 2:

But you know it's like. Something else you made me think about too is people will stay in relationships to prove a point to other people. But really, who, what? What is the benefit of trying to prove other people wrong when it's killing you? And I look back on that and I say this because I stayed in my relationship longer than I should have because a I kept saying, oh, I want to, I want to recreate the mold of infidelity in marriages of my family. So I got to stay because I got to prove them wrong that us women can keep our husbands you know, our husbands don't you know? Because everybody in my family already knew they could see it. And sometimes they would bring it up to me and I would defend him. And so in my defense of him, I was also defending me of, like, I gotta prove something right.

Speaker 2:

And uh, I was even on a coaching session with another woman and she was doing that same thing and I asked her. I said what, what? Why are you wanting to stay in this relationship? And essentially it came down to her wanting to prove a point and I said so, you want to prove a point for the sake of you killing? Because she was like me in my same situation want to prove a point for the sake of you killing because she was like me in my same situation. You're willing to prove a point, even though the point ain't real, for the sake of killing yourself.

Speaker 2:

But that's how psychologically confused we are within this emotional abuse, because we don't know it's emotional abuse and, like you said, what we're doing is we're telling ourselves oh, but it's me, I'm crazy, because I even told her. I said I even let her talk for like an hour and a half. I said you've talked for an hour and a half and I've never heard you put any blame on him. You've always said it's me, I should have done this right, oh, it's me. So we're taking all this blame again and we're internalizing it, and so we've got the whole world on our shoulders and we're not even giving this person any accountability. And so how much of ourselves are we harming for the sake of proving a point?

Speaker 1:

How much of ourselves are we harming for the sake of proving a point? Harming, harming, harming. You said two key words in this after party and in the episode that I want to unpack. You said trust and you said healing. So you trust. How do you you're staying, how do you rebuild that trust, so the trust in yourself to be there?

Speaker 2:

That's good. It is so funny because I was actually going to say well, everything starts with self, so you've got to rebuild that trust in yourself.

Speaker 2:

So you know, it's kind of like what I said even in the episode the anger really is about you. I mean, yes, we're mad that the other person cheated on us, but when you really start to scale back, a lot of your anger and your shame comes from the fact that you knew early on and you didn't say a thing. You know what I'm saying? Um, and so it's it, and so it's forgiveness of yourself. It's that first piece to trust, and then it's acknowledgement right, and it's acceptance. So it's acknowledging too. I'll give you an example. Everything's going to be always about people that I'm coaching and I was. So she had a baby with this person. She didn't want the child, they were trying to get an abortion, they were unsuccessful in having the abortion. Basically, long story short, she made so many concessions, and so she was beating herself up for all of these concessions that she had made with this person, and so I was having her to say those out loud, and she wouldn't say them out loud, and so I would let her talk and then I would ask that same question what are you angry at yourself about? Long story short, all of those things. So it's actually acknowledging too, like this is these are all the things that I've done wrong, because you've got to first see where you lost the trust within yourself and how you can rebuild those things within yourself and forgive yourself for those man. I got pregnant out of marriage uh, before marriage and I said I would never do that. You know what. I forgive myself for that. And giving yourself compassion, because we give everybody else in the world compassion, but when it comes to ourselves, we never give it to ourselves.

Speaker 2:

And then the next part to rebuilding trust is getting out of this judgment mindset is getting out of this judgment mindset. What we'll learn is that we're projecting how we are onto other people A lot of times. We're judging people all the day, so we assume that people are judging us and they're not, and so I can tell how judgmental a person is by how hard they are on themselves when they're going through the grieving process. And it's so funny. I'll ask people all the time you judge people in your head a lot, don't you? And they'll be like how did you know? Because you do your same stuff like that.

Speaker 2:

So you've got to stop judging yourself for all of the failures that you've done within yourself, because you've already broken the trust within yourself. Every time you overlooked it, you were taking trust away from you. Every time that you said, okay, I'm going to take you back, but if you do it again, I'm not coming back. And then you do it. You're lowering your trust within yourself, and so you have to start learning how to actually see where you lost that trust so you can rebuild that trust within yourself. And so you have to start learning how to actually see where you lost that trust so you can rebuild that trust within you first.

Speaker 1:

Interesting because you definitely point out a factor in trust for me. I believe that we lose trust within ourselves because we hear ourselves all the time, we're with ourselves all the time and we know how much we lie.

Speaker 1:

Yes, we be lying to ourselves Listen, lying Scenario comes up. Somebody's like oh, I don't want to go to that, I'm going to tell them this. Why can't you just tell them you don't want to go to that? I'm gonna tell him this. Why can't you just tell him you don't want to go? Yeah, why isn't your honest answer a good enough answer? So after a while we start to really we know how much, how much we lie. Oh, I'm not, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna do. I'm working out every day, three, three times a day. That's what I'm going to do. We already know we're not doing that. It's not even realistic to go from nothing to three unless you have a coach. Let me tell you something about a coach. If you had had a coach in your situation, in your situation, how much quicker do you think you would have been able to move into freedom from what had?

Speaker 2:

happened, it wouldn't have been five years. I can tell you that Because actually my trichologist that I told you about she actually ended up was also a life coach. So she actually ended up coaching me and that is how I like. I literally it was like overnight I started to change who I was, how I thought, how I even perceived myself. You know what I'm saying yes and um, yeah, if I would have had a coach at the beginning of this man, I would be so much further along.

Speaker 1:

When do you think you would have been willing? When do you think because now coaches it's like coaches are popping up everywhere. The pandemic, Pandemic, has really had people sit down, sit with themselves, and in some sense people were able to figure out what that thing was. That they could do so, now that there are a lot more coaches around for people to get, if that was available for you. Going through this process when, in your situation, do you feel like you would have been like, let me get a coach, I need a coach.

Speaker 2:

I'm gonna say a scripture. There's a scripture that says the Lord rewards those who diligently seek them him. Yeah, so I found my coach when I was supposed to find my coach. Come on, like I don't do the whole. Oh, I wish I would have found it. Blah, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2:

God knew my heart and he knew my prayers and she came when she was supposed to come yeah and so I say the same thing as I'm doing the work now God, send my people to me when they're ready for me, they'll come to me. Um, the first time I found out about my husband cheating on me and I finally told my mom. My mom shared with me that one of my cousins had saw my um ex-husband on tinder. She saw his account on tinder and so the whole family. While you were still married, while we were still married, and nobody told me.

Speaker 2:

Everybody else in the family knew, because she called my cousin, called my aunt, which was her mom, then my aunt called my mama and then they called my other aunt. So they had this whole conversation and they were like don't tell, bree. And initially I was angry, right, I was very angry and I texted my cousin and I was like you should have just told me. But I knew that if they would have told me at that point I wouldn't have been ready to receive it and I don't even know what I would have done with that information. So I say God knew the time I was supposed to receive it and he brought her to me in that time.

Speaker 1:

Amen, amen, perfect timing, amen, perfect timing. There's something about his timing because essentially she was looking at you killing yourself. You, internally, your body, was actually at this point dying yeah, so it was at the right time, and sometimes it doesn't feel comfortable when that time is, but you gotta hit your rock bottom. I do feel like everybody's rock bottom is different, much different. Like what do you? What timeframes you saying you have, uh, different clients. What timeframes? Like? What's the longest timeframe? Someone has been in something what's the shortest timeframe? Again knowing now, moving in the understanding that it's in the correct time for you, what's the shortest time client you've had that was like, yeah, nah, this just happened, happened. And somebody else was like, listen, this has been going on for years and I can't do this tomfoolery.

Speaker 2:

I need to understand what this is and make my choice so I don't know how long this person has been with this, with her partner altogether, but she did tell me that, um, it's 11 years post finding out and the pain still feels like the pain that she first found out. Yeah, so I would say that 11 years for that particular client, um, and then a client that I'm actually working with now um, it was like three weeks and, um, yeah, she found out and she was like, nah, I got to figure out how to navigate this and she's wanting to stay with him and so we're learning that process. But, yeah, about two to three weeks.

Speaker 1:

So do. People come and they already have an understanding of their desire to stay or leave. Okay, that's something they work through.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yeah, because that's something they work through. Yes, yeah, because that's a process like um, I even interviewed a woman who, uh, was gonna make it work with her husband at the time, and so she went back and she was in it and then she even said, like, once she started doing the work herself, she got herself a coach. And then she was able to like, once she started doing the work herself, she got herself a coach, and then she was able to see that, nah, this ain't this, this ain't this, ain't it, you know. And then she left, and I think that that's important to mention too.

Speaker 2:

Like it's OK for you to change your mind, like you can. You can first say, all right, I'm gonna go back, I'm gonna try to work this out with you. You can first say, all right, I'm gonna go back, I'm gonna try to work this out with you. But then again, that's why I always say you, I like to help you find the decision that's best for you, because essentially, if there's something within you and you're not at peace with being there, even if they are trying to work things out, you have to be at peace within yourself, and so I just help you figure that out.

Speaker 1:

So what about staying? How do you help get a plan together, help someone come to the understanding of the plan to stay, and even in staying by staying I mean stay, and this is my plan, these are the consequences. Do they then come back to you and go yeah, nah, we're going to go, I am staying, I'm definitely staying. It's happened again. I'm staying. Like that that definite stay stay person. How do you maneuver through that?

Speaker 2:

So it's like if I'm working with them and even in the midst of it, the person cheats again. Yes, it's going to go back to that inner work and it's going to be them asking me asking them hard questions about this keeps happening.

Speaker 2:

And you have to look at facts, cause I actually have somebody like that. Now I come to think of it. You have to look at facts, uh, because I actually have somebody like that. Now I come to think of it. You have to look at the facts, right? Um, if you choose to stay with a person and you know they're not gonna change, well, then you have to feel are you saying you're okay with them constantly cheating on you? You know what I'm saying. So it's like what level of acceptance are you going to allow in this relationship? But it's still going back to you. And why? Why do you feel like you have to stay in this? Or why do you feel like it's okay for somebody to continuously mistreat you in this manner and you're constantly hurt about it? What's your fear? What is your fear of leaving Right?

Speaker 1:

That is very good. That's a good transition. What is your fear of leaving to move to healing? You talk a lot about healing. What is your definition for healing in this process?

Speaker 2:

So I think everything that you'll learn about me is about self, and so it's loving yourself, um, and and seeing yourself, because when you are in emotionally abusive relationships, um, you put yourself on the back burner and a lot of the times you don't realize it, but subconsciously there are some things in you to where you feel like you're less than you don't truly love yourself. Somebody asked me a question before and I thought it was a really great question, and they said what is life before infidelity? Because they were like yo, business is called life after infidelity, but what is life before infidelity? And I told them life before infidelity is a false sense of love, self-love, it's a false sense of self-worth. It's a false sense of strength, because all of this stuff before, like we talked about, I would never be with somebody who cheated on me like I'm ghost, I'm gone. I thought you could not tell me I was not strong prior to going through what I went through. Now I know I'm strong yes prior to that.

Speaker 2:

So when you are in um a relationship like that, where it's abusive, there's something about you subconsciously that is not that you need, and so you stay with people because they're filling a void for you, and so it's this falseness, and so, look, I don't forgot really what the question was Healing, healing so that's what it is. Healing is really getting to who you are and understanding who you are. Okay.

Speaker 1:

Okay, okay, okay Okay, because healing, I think, comes in many shapes and forms. I believe that trust also, because you can have trust. But what do you do with trust if the person you're with is a narcissist?

Speaker 2:

You, okay is a narcissist. You, okay, that's a whole, another, that's a whole. Look, look, look. You not said the wrong word. What? What just happened? That narcissist honey?

Speaker 1:

that's a that's a trigger for a lot of people. So give a definition to narcissists.

Speaker 2:

Okay. So basically, what a narcissist is is they are mass manipulators and they do a great job of manipulating the truth and it causes you to question your reality. And so that's kind of really. What it is in a nutshell is that they manipulate the truth to cause you to question your reality. I'll give you an example.

Speaker 2:

When I was going through it with my ex-husband Well, no, we were still married and I let him use my backup debit card this was my secret stash money and I was like, okay, I'm gonna let you use this. And I was. I was mad Cause I was like, dang, now he's got to know about my secret account that I got. And, um, I let him use that card. Well, I got a notification that somebody had checked the balance on that card, and then I even saw it on my bank statement and everything. And I could even say at the time you know what I'm saying and what they did. So I asked him, I said did you check my balance on my account? And he was like, no, you tripping. How would I even you know? And like he just went into this whole lie, he was so believable in his lie that it had me questioned Am I tripping. Did somebody? No, no, so maybe nobody did check my account, maybe, even though I can see the records that they did.

Speaker 2:

That is what narcissists do. They find a way to manipulate the truth, to have you think that you are tripping, which is why people who have been cheated on we are. You know, we always talk about this man. Am I really seeing what I'm seeing? It's because of what they're telling you. They're telling you, man, you tripping man. Well, you didn't. You know that girl just said hello to me, and we know that that girl you know what I'm saying Gave him a wink or something like that, and so that's what it is.

Speaker 1:

That's what it is. That is very true. I also feel like they do their best to demean and undermine your intentions and your efforts, the energy that you put into things. You could do something, and it's talked about as if whatever you did was the worst thing. But then let's say you cook the meal. Oh my God, that was horrible, that was. But then you see them eating it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I'm glad that you say that, because that's one of the tactics that they use is because they do their purpose too. Outside of having you question your reality, their purpose is to, um, make you feel small. So, like you said, they'll do a lot of those things where everything is always your fault, so it's like oh well, I cheated on you because you weren't combing your hair and you was coming home wearing them, do regs, blah, blah, blah. You know what I'm saying. So they do all those things to make you feel less than about yourself so it gives them control yes, and control is the key.

Speaker 1:

Control is the thing that they want to have over over the relationship. I have even held conversations with women and the narcissist that was in their life had them thinking listen, I got somebody else, I'm leaving, I'm just, this is just it for a little bit. And so they would give more in hopes of keeping the person. Well, the person was never going anywhere, nobody else was going to be in terms of taking them. People will play with people, but people, sometimes people, like yeah, no, you keep your toy, that's you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's you.

Speaker 1:

I just had a moment. That's your toy. I don't. Yeah, that's you. I just had a moment. That's your toy. I don't want, I don't want it. I'm gonna leave. I'm gonna put that back on your playground. That's all you and, and I think that they would have. Uh, it's amazing how they, like you say, and it's bending the truth, no, I say it's definitely just downright lying and not telling the truth in terms of how things are really going on.

Speaker 2:

that causes some to feel as though they're crazy yeah, yeah, and like you said it's, it's this sense of control. And, uh, like I remember, one time I asked my husband I was like why can't you just stop, stop cheating? And his response was I can't quit cold turkey, you know. And then one time I was just like blowing his phone up. It was in the middle of the night, yeah, yeah. And guess what? Because he had already done a great job of lessening my esteem about myself, I took it right. And then he would even say stuff like I'd be like well, why don't you just leave? You you're doing all this cheat, why don't you just leave? And he would say well, I can't, because you need me, I have have to look after you.

Speaker 2:

So they do all of these, they say these things purposely to make you feel like you need them and they know what they're. They know what they're doing, right, even I texted him one time. I was blowing his phone up and it was like in the middle of the night, two, three o'clock in the morning, and he was like if you keep calling me, I'm not coming home Again. Control. So all of these ways in which they can gain this control, and what happens is the dangers with being with the narcissist is that you set the bar. So if they do this thing and you allow it, they know, okay, she allowed it at this level. So the next time I do something, I'm gonna do it at this level. And so with the narcissist unless they really feel like they're a narcissist and they're going to get help, it's never going to stop. It's only going to get worse because they're always going to go a little bit higher after we allow one behavior after the other.

Speaker 1:

One behavior after the other. When we got on here for the after party you mentioned no, actually, in the episode you mentioned two people that have been in the situation of being married and being cheated on. I can say that these two people's situation ended differently. One chose staying, One chose leaving. So the two people you mentioned are Holly Berry and Beyonce, Both women extremely beautiful, extremely successful, extremely admired, extremely sought after. You would think in your right mind nobody would cheat on them. Who would cheat on them? That is something that I found was conversation for women. Who would cheat on her? It's amazing how we not only we blame the woman indirectly. Yeah, yeah, Like what does she do? Who would cheat on her? Why? Why would someone and it's not even cheat on her? It's like what is? No one ever said what's the problem for the men that did?

Speaker 2:

yeah and oh no, go ahead. No, I'm listening. I'm like you know I was thinking to me. That's what I tell my women. That's my first indication. So one of the things I always ask women when we get on, when we get on calls, is I ask them, when you brought up what they did. What was their response? And if a person is like the person was like remorseful and like I'm so sorry, I you know, I want to make it work. I'm like, okay, cool, they might be a good candidate. That might, though they might be a good candidate to rebuild trust with. But if your partner said, well, I cheated on you because of like I have one client partner said, um, I cheated on you because you had an abortion and you were withholding sex for me, hello, you were grief you just had an abortion.

Speaker 2:

So of course, psychologically, you're not even ready intimate. You're not even ready to be intimate, and so that's the first indicator. For me is, when you're working with someone, their initial response is going to tell you a lot about how you can tell if you can work with them, because their character, in the core of them is in their response. Right, if they're going to blame you for everything, or did they take responsibility for their actions?

Speaker 1:

for everything or did they take responsibility for their actions? Right, if they're going to blame you for everything or if they're going to take responsibility, that would definitely explain, uh, both of those ladies situation and just using them again as examples, it's only because they were. They're in the news, everything was you know, not, I'm sure, not every intricate detail, but it was a blast on social media, on the news, on you know all the platforms. Everybody kind of knew different components of what was going on, but again, they're not singled out out, but it just makes you go as women, we all were like, well, who would cheat on them? So if they cheat on them, they'll cheat on me because they're absolutely beautiful and that's not the measure that you're telling us.

Speaker 2:

We need to measure this way, yeah yeah, and you know what it's so dangerous in that too, because I was actually a victim of this. Um, I was like dang, if holly berry and beyonce can get cheated on, then what about little me? Like I'm, I'm nobody. And so what I told that's another reason why I stayed right was I was like oh well, I'll make you, because if the most beautiful women get cheated on, then I have to just be okay with this. And that is so dangerous because I had someone reach out to me and she was like all of her relationships have ended in infidelity, so the one that she was in currently, even though he was cheating on her, she said well, since all men cheat, I'm just going to have to be at peace with this one. And so there's a danger in that, of like, even when we see those things, subconsciously we're we're allowing ourselves to accept this mistreatment, because our subconscious is telling us oh well, everybody goes through it.

Speaker 2:

Beyonce and Holly Berry went through it, so you've got to accept it too. You've got to. You know, you've got to accept this. And it's like even going back to shoot. Jay-z even said in a song that him and Beyonce did together, he was like, you know, he had to sweat her. He was like you know he was quoting another lyric, but he was like, know he was quoting another lyric, but he was like y'all know, I to get a back, I had the sweater and that's a coming original lyric.

Speaker 2:

But, like that's the sense too, when you're a betrayer, you also have to bite the bullet for a little bit to rebuild that trust. And so if a person still has arrogance and pride, even though they did you wrong, and they're not truly trying to understand how their actions because, yes, there's probably some things that you got to work on in a relationship, right, but initially, the hurt that you cause this person, if you can't see past that, you don't that that person is selfish, and how can you rebuild trust with a selfish person?

Speaker 1:

how can you rebuild trust with a selfish person? That's very vital. That's that. That in itself is very vital. So how, what? What flags would you tell someone to look for, just when they're dealing with these, when they're starting down the relationship path? What flags would you say now? I need to pay attention to this path.

Speaker 2:

What flags would you say now I need to pay attention to? So it's funny. What a person does their actions, paying attention to a person's actions right, because people always talk about, like do you talk about boundaries on the first day? Do you talk about expectations on the first day? I really believe that you still want to keep the dates fun, like, especially your first date. You want to keep it fun, right? And so you have to look at what a person is not saying, right? So I'll give you an example.

Speaker 2:

Um, a guy I'm dating currently. Um, our first date. We met on a dating app and we were getting ready to meet up. He was like well, what area are you in? And I told him what area I was in and, um, so he sent me. He was like, okay, well, we'll meet at this time at this coffee shop.

Speaker 2:

He actually picked a coffee shop that was seven minutes away from my house and like 35 minutes away from his, versus other men who have been like, okay, well, let's meet halfway, and then they'll be like uh, when you find the coffee shop, let me know. So what that told me about this particular guy is that he cares about me and my safety, that he's going to commute majority of the way, versus this whole meeting halfway type of thing. Right, like he's actually going to care about me, so he's not gonna make us meet halfway, right? Um, and then it let me know too, like he took control, he was like okay, well, I'll find the coffee shop, and so that let me know too. Like okay, well, he likes to.

Speaker 2:

He's a planner, like you know, he's gonna organize and he was on time, so he values time, right, and so it's like all of these things tell me a lot about a person without them not even saying anything. So when you're dating someone, you have to learn how to date smart and see what, because everybody can tell you. People are trained now and conditioned with all the podcasts to tell us what we want to hear. But my biggest thing is I want to see how you respond with things that you're not telling me Things you're not telling me.

Speaker 1:

I like that that you said telling you what you want to hear, because for me it's got to match up. It's got to match up this, what you do, has to match up with what you said. For me to say, oh, okay, okay, so you can say all day, oh, I want to do this, I want to do that, I want to take you here, I want to take you there if we go out. It doesn't match. I'm like why would you say all of those things, and this is what it is, I'm cool with this being what it is, yeah, but why didn't you just say this was what it is, right, exactly, instead of just hearing oh, you know, every time you left something, every time you just oh, no, I don't have time, oh no, I can't make it. You know different excuses. I find that those are flags. I find that a lot of excuses are flags. Those are flags. If you can't have some consistency with honoring the things that you say, yeah, that's a problem for me. So I feel like we talked about the deal breakers.

Speaker 1:

How do you advise women on making a list of things that they actually want? That are the things that they want. You know the things that you don't want Like nobody, I don't think for the most part there are. Some people don't want infidelity to be the thing that happens to them. What do you? How do you advise them now? They're choosing to stay or leave and they need that healthy list. How do you walk someone through making that healthy boundary list?

Speaker 2:

The first thing we're going to do is how do you want to feel? If you want to feel safe in a relationship, what does that look like? If you want to feel protected in a relationship, what does that look like? Again, when I'm on dates with people I love, when we walk outside on the sidewalk and I purposely I'm gonna tell my secret now, I purposely walk on the outside of the sidewalk and if a man doesn't look at me and be like girl, you tripping, you know, on the inside, you don't, you don't care about, you're not a protector, you're not a natural protector. So I again, I'm looking for the things. You're not a protector, you're not a natural protector. So I again, I'm looking for the things that you're not saying to me. You know what I'm saying and so I look at too. How do you want to feel? And most women are looking.

Speaker 2:

Most people are looking for three things in any relationship business partnership, romantic partnership, boss to subordinates you're looking for three things. You're looking for safety, security and certainty. And when you boil that down, it's do you care? Do you understand? And can I trust you? And, like you said, when a person is inconsistent, that disrupts the trust. Because I can't trust you? Yeah, because I don't know if you're going to flake or not flake. You know what I'm saying, and so security, certainty and safety is what we're all looking for. And how do you want to feel?

Speaker 1:

Right, how do you want to feel Ma'am yet again? Want to feel Ma'am yet again. This has been a lot for my mind and my heart. Thank you so much. I did want to ask just one more thing. I'm trying to just narrow it down to one thing, because you've touched on so much. If you're in a relationship and religion is something that people um, you all right yeah you're not all right no, I'm good.

Speaker 2:

When you be hitting those buzzwords I'll be like, okay, she talking, good now religion.

Speaker 1:

Religion because they, you know, um, don't be unevenly yoked. But then everybody says, yeah, you can't walk away. There are no, no exceptions to this rule of being married, but there's the, for me, the unevenly yoked. What happens when you get into a relationship? Everything seems so well and amazing. The real person does not step out. Until after you say I do, wow. The religion steps in and says you can go nowhere, wait. But physical abuse, like you said, can seen, but emotional abuse cannot. How do you coach women through the argument of religion?

Speaker 1:

And the reason why I say argument is because in the Bible it does say enter his courts with thanksgiving, enter his courts with praise. For me, I believe that a pastor stands up on Sunday and he's literally in his courts defending his word, mm-hmm, advising his people on his word. So I feel like I see, I understand the court is a place to come into and you're just learning, but I also think it's a kind of a, a place of of putting thing on, putting things on display and arguing kind of, even a debate kind of, because it's it's kind of they're trying to teach you to shift your mind, your heart and your spirit, like all three at the same time. So how do you advise someone in a situation where everything was false and now the real person has stepped out and but they're still looking at their religion?

Speaker 2:

um, so the religion covers a multitude um, but I'm so I'm gonna stay right now, biblically, like the bible, and if we're talking biblically, christian or whatever you know, there's a formula for that, right? So the Bible says that if you have an issue with your brother, you go to him and profit. So that's what you do with your partner, right? You say, hey, I've noticed that there's been a change in the person that you used to be. You want to talk about that too, and you also want to know, like I just need to know too. Like, is this the real you? You know what I'm saying. So is this the person that I'm going to be with? Before? And when you go to them, you're telling them you know what issues you have with them, right? And you're trying to see how that conversation goes. And if they're like, ok, cool, I'm willing to work on some things, ok, so then the Bible says that if that doesn't work, then you go and you get somebody else Right, and you bring them with you with that other person. So you do that, and then you're also praying for them, and then you're bringing it forth right To like a larger group of people. And so when you have done those things and that person still has not changed. You kind of got your answer right.

Speaker 2:

I heard this before and it was like here's how you know that you can wait on a person is that if you are getting ready for church and your partner says, hey, wait on me, I wanna ride with you to church, and you're already late. But if you see them in the restroom taking a shower, getting dressed, frantically, moving right, then even though you're upset and you're frustrated, you're still going to wait because you can see the evidence of them getting ready. But if they ask you to wait on them and they get back into bed and they go to sleep and they tossing and turning in the bed, you got it. You can leave because they're not putting forth the effort to get up to get ready so they can ride with you to church. That is that you give people the opportunity to show that they're putting forth the effort to do what it is to make this relationship successful and if you don't see that they're putting in any effort, you have your answer the evidence is in the effort.

Speaker 1:

You heard it here. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, you heard it here with the recovery call. What did I do?

Speaker 2:

Just be yourself. This is good honey.

Speaker 1:

After party this is when you really get down and dirty with it.

Speaker 2:

Exactly.

Speaker 1:

I do again. Thank you, I appreciate you taking the time. Another amazing, amazing conversation. Just your wisdom in this area Definitely on display. I appreciate you. I honor you being here and sharing again. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2:

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I really, I really appreciate it. This is, it means a lot, you know, to trust me on your platform, so thank you.

Speaker 1:

Oh yes, oh yes, and I do All right. There we have it, the after party, episode 22. Listen, it's up to you, and it's a hard choice to make if infidelity has peaked its ugly head at you in your situation. And now, the hard choice is yours Staying versus leaving Hope. Everything that Brianna shared with you definitely helped. Have a great one.